Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:09 Hey guys, welcome to the mom voice. This is Lauren and Sarah with episode 69. Okay. Lauren, I'm so excited because
Speaker 2 00:00:16 We have ms. Elise punters sitting across from us today, and at least I've been tracking you down for months. Now I really have say hi to everybody and we've finally, Oh my gosh, this is going to be a nightmare. You guys should see us. We're sharing a microphone for the first time ever. We're sitting in here. I'm not even cutting it. I'm not <inaudible> friends. No, we are sitting in her beautiful Dan. She has some amazing DIY projects and it looks so good. We love it, Alisa. They know. So thanks for having us
Speaker 1 00:00:52 In your home. Um, we are going to be talking to you tonight about infertility, your journey with getting your beautiful little girls here. And then we'll probably parlay that into your DIY, your love for DIY. And I think it's important to note too. You have a master's degree in speech, language pathology, and that's also a passion for you. Yeah. So that's awesome. You're married to Scott. And like I said, you have two children, um, Lyla and grace. So let's dive in. Well, thanks for walking us into your home. Thanks for being here. Happy to have you. We're so excited. So yeah, just share with us when you started, um, you know, that decision to have children and that journey, how did it begin? So we had been married for probably about a year and decided we wanted to have kids and it just didn't go how you think it will go.
Speaker 1 00:01:44 You just think once you decide to have kids that'll just happen. Definitely. Right. No one wants to prepare for like the hardship of it. No, and especially my parents struggled with infertility and they had me and then struggled. And so I was an only child for a long time asking for siblings. And so I felt like infertility was already part of my story. And that was over. It was even as a child that was really hard. And we finally, I was six when we adopted my brother and then I was 16 when we adopted my sister. Oh, wow. So your mom never had another neurological four rounds of IVF and, uh, and the miracle was adoption and it, it was wonderful and great. And I was the first to hold my little brother when we went to, to get him. And it was okay. Amazing experience, but I also knew how hard it wasn't.
Speaker 1 00:02:35 I definitely didn't. You want that? Well, did you go into your, you know, childbearing years and all already worried that you might? No, not really. I felt like I ever thought, yeah, I would experience that <inaudible> but yeah, quickly realized it was not going to be easy. I had never had a consistent the cycle. And so I feel like because of watching my parents, I was definitely more proactive than probably someone who hadn't already experienced infertility in some way in their life. So, right. I went, uh, pretty quick. I was like, I'm going to just get some baseline tests, went to a, uh, OB GYN. They're like, Oh, you're not ovulating. And here's Clomid, which is pretty much the bandaid. Any OB GYN is, are not trained in infertility. And if someone comes to them and says, you know, I'm not getting pregnant, they just throw it at them.
Speaker 1 00:03:32 Yes. We've had a few friends that I do. I do know that it's just kind of a common, like yeah, try this first. Yeah. They just kinda throw it at you and it's not fine. Well, and what, what does Clomid do? I don't know much increases the amount of aches that you produce is the hope and then helping you to articulate. Okay. So at this point in your journey, do you know, I hate to use the word problem, but do you know what specific issue is preventing you? And I honestly feel like, um, some people will say, well, you're not really experiencing in fertility yet. Cause it's only been a few months, you know, but the second it's not happening and you realize something's off, you're experiencing infertility, honestly, in some ways that time of not knowing what was wrong and feeling very helpless and just taking a pill and not really knowing what was going on with my body was the hardest, because you're in the dark and you just, I don't know what to do.
Speaker 1 00:04:28 And in some ways, when I got later in the process, I was doing everything that I could. And for me and my personality, doing everything and putting everything out, there was some how easier, cause I felt like I was totally proactive. Whereas when I was on Clomid I was just sitting around waiting for something to happen and not knowing what was going on. Well, I know this is all about your journey, but I have to share it. So with my first pregnancy, my first daughter, it took me seven, eight months to get pregnant. And I would not say I was at all battling and fertility. I really think a lot of mine was like stress and just, yeah, overthinking it and all the things I don't know. But I can remember every month just getting my period and Bri being heartbroken, like crying, you're ready.
Speaker 1 00:05:12 You're so ready. And so I can only imagine for a woman. And that's why my heart breaks for my friends who do really face this is I so remember being in the shower on those kind of just builds the pain builds each month, that period comes you. It builds even for someone who ends up never experiencing infertility, that hope of, you know, being pregnant. But, um, no, Columbia, it also makes you crazy. Oh really? Oh, we literally just leaned it. You mean? Oh it, um, yeah. I'm sure people listening who have been on it will just be like, yes. Raise their hand because it definitely, for most people yeah. Really impacts mental health and it impacts your health more each month you're on it. So OB GYN is, we'll just throw coma at you. And a lot of them aren't super educated on how long you should be on it.
Speaker 1 00:06:08 So I did six months on COVID, which is most doctors will not do more than three. Um, and it builds and my mental health really took a toll. And in what way, just feeling depressed. Yeah. Really depressed. Really just mopey sad, really unmotivated. Just not good. My husband actually went, I ended up getting pregnant. I was like, am I crazy pregnant lady? Like, are my hormones everywhere? He's like, not like, Clomid like, yeah. So that was huge. I was like, who are you? I was not myself. And I knew I wasn't myself. So how long, so you did it for six months. So at what point did you try? Okay. We need a, so at the year Mark, I was like, Hey, I've been trying for a year. At six months when I went to the OB GYN, edit your Mark. I said, I'm going to go to a fertility clinic and do more train stuff there.
Speaker 1 00:07:01 And, um, that's when we went and we went to Utah fertility clinic and I found dr. Conway and I love her she's well, always hold a special place in my heart. And just that very first meeting, she said, you're young. And at all, everything looks great. They do, uh, uh, ultrasound right then and there. And it just gives you a little bit of peace to like, see, even when I saw that I just had ovaries. There's part of you. That's like, do I have ovaries? Do I have absolutely. You just don't know what's going on. It felt just like a step towards <inaudible>. Do you feel when is a good time? So somebody is listening and they're a younger mother or they feel like they might be approaching the infertility. Yeah. You know, realm. Yeah. Point. Do you feel like you need to seek out an infertility doctor versus an OB GYN?
Speaker 1 00:07:53 So that's the biggest misconception about infertility is that you have to have a referral to go to an infertility specialist and you don't, you can go whenever you want. So if your cycle's all over the place, like I wish I would have just gone straight there, like the six months on Clomid. I wish I wouldn't have done that. It just, our infertility doctors MDs. Are they their endocrinologist? Yeah. Oh, okay. They're a specialized endocrinologist. A reproductive endocrinologist. So did you ever get an official diagnosis of like what it was hindering? So they, mine was, um, unexplained. I had one, they do a test right off the bat. Before you get any treatments, they shoot this die. Uh, and see if your tubes are open. It was very painful, especially because one of mine was closed and they'll just keep pushing the dye to try to see if maybe there's just something that they can get it open.
Speaker 1 00:08:44 So they just kept pushing and pushing. And so that was a kidney infection and it's like, yeah, it's not fun. Yeah. There are a lot of fun things about all those kinds of tests, but yeah, so I did find out I had one tube that they weren't, they weren't a hundred percent sure if it was totally closed, it's not like a hundred percent sure exam, but they were like, this might be an issue, but I, once I was on the medications, I obviated well, and I was definitely off before that, but I hadn't unexplained and my husband tested out fine. So, so did they put you on another round of medication? I had debt. So there, there are two types of medications that do the same thing as Clomid. So there's Clomid and then there's Femara. And she was like, we're gonna try Femara since you've done tons of Clomid and it's not great for your mental health, from our, does the same thing and doesn't affect your, it, it goes a different pathway.
Speaker 1 00:09:38 Doesn't it affect your, your brain as much and your hormones in like that way. So we did that. We started with a round of timed intercourse, which is the least invasive being that a fraternity fertility clinic will do. So you take ovulation meds and you go in and they look and they watch and make sure that you're, um, follicles, which is a fancy term for your eggs are growing and that they're getting to the right size. And then when they're the right size, do you, you take a shot that forces you to ovulate. It's actually the, if I'm right, it's the pregnancy hormone. And so forces your body into ovulating. Wow. And then they just tell you a specific times that you need to have fun with each other. It kind of takes the fun out of what I was going to say. It becomes kind of clinical, very clinical it's.
Speaker 1 00:10:27 It just makes it kind of stressful, you know? And um, so we, we only did one of those and then the next step up is a, I'm an IUI intrauterine insemination, artificial, insemination, that to me, because I really don't know. So it's kind of like, think of it like a Turkey Beyster so right. That's what, yeah, it's kind of like that, it's the same thing as the time to intercourse. But then instead of, instead of having intercourse yourself, you, your husband or partner supplies, the sperm, they wash it, which just gets the very best sperm and they shoot, they have you take this shit, they wash it. That's what they call it. That's what they, they clean those jumps up, get them ready.
Speaker 1 00:11:12 And then they, they shoot it up there with the Turkey baser. Oh, okay. So it does not actually end together. They're not like, what is that called? Where you take that in vitro. So that's just that they're getting it right at the very best place at the very best time and the very best sperm. So usually do your chances after three of those start declining. So usually do three and we did three and they were all, they all did not dare all negative. You know, it is a roller. Yeah. I mean, how are you feeling at this point when all of those are hard? Cause you, at the, at the beginning, I felt like a renewed hope. When I went to the infertility center, my doctor was great in like, you'll be in and out of here in three months when you're like, she gets me.
Speaker 1 00:11:56 Yeah. Everything going on, we're doing everything that you can, my, my follicles are looking great. Sperms looking great. Like this is, yeah, everything's going the best. Got it. That it could, and it was crushing. It was crushed. And did it affect your relationship at any point? Like in a negative light? Did you, I guess, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. I think the biggest tip, I feel like if anything, our relationship like more tense parts where during Clomid, cause I was pretty depressed and then not thinking is clearly right. Totally. And um, but I quickly learned that we would grieve in different ways. Oh, I love that. Okay. Talk to us about that. So how did you get to that and what I mean by that? Um, he guys handle infertility totally different than a woman. Okay. Completely. Because that was my plan forever. I shaped my whole life around becoming a mother.
Speaker 1 00:12:57 That was my cool, right. So when I, when that wasn't happening, that was like, my foundation was ripped out. That was why I got the career. I got, that was why I had made all of the decisions that I had. And it was so much more shattering. Whereas I feel like my husband, he always planned on working and he always planned on and he, he was, he's also really positive, but yeah, it also wasn't yeah. Checked out and nothing was his fault, you know? No nothing's anyone's fault. But do you know what I mean? I felt like, Mmm. He would tell me, Oh Elise, if this is it, like, if we can't have kids and it's me and you for the rest of my life, I'm happy. Oh. Which is very sweet. But for me, I sit, I'm not happy. That's not what I pictured right.
Speaker 1 00:13:45 For my life. And so we grieve differently. It carry different weights. And as soon as I realized that I couldn't expect him to grieve the way I did. And even if it didn't seem like he was at you never, you can't judge how someone grieve something agree and it's not happening to their body. And I think I've even learned that various things throughout pregnancy, our marriage. Yeah. And he hates, when I say this, when I say you just don't get it or you just don't understand my husband. Yeah. He's like, don't say that to me again. I also feel like you don't get it. Yeah. My husband, I feel like a lot of times felt like he needed to be my rock. Yeah. So he, wasn't going to show me grieving even though, you know, maybe that's what I wanted to see. He wanted to be strong for me too, because I was the one who's going through so much more physically.
Speaker 1 00:14:39 But it definitely, I feel like as soon as I realized we grieved differently and that Mmm. I needed to be patient with him. And to just, I feel like we got closer. I feel like those kinds of hard things, you either get closer, farther. And I felt like we, we leaned on each other and yeah, I love that. It was, I mean, I have only dealt with like one situation like this. I've had a miscarriage and I think it was, yeah, it's very similar. Like he grieved in handled it. Oh, very different than I did. Yeah. And I think it's just, when you have the expectation, you have, you want to hold the baby in your belly and all the things as women, it's just like such a different yeah. Process. It's, it's just a whole different beast for a woman. And so, um, and every infertility journey is different.
Speaker 1 00:15:28 So like in some situations it could be the husbands sperm, that's a problem. And then that would probably carry it totally different grief. Right. And his mom's roles might be switched a little bit. So that's the beast of infertility too, is that everyone's stories so different. And I have to wonder because yours was unexplained. Was that kind of maddening to just modeling a root cause. Holy, super frustrating how to fix it. You just want to fix it. Yeah, for sure. You know, and there's a lot of women out there. I mean, yeah. My sister had did IVF too, and yeah. Yeah. She never got an answer and that's just like, kind of, it's something you just have to carry. You're just the unknown. Yeah. So let's move into you start IVF. What, what does, okay. Like we said, that's in vitro fertilization. What does that process look like your day to day?
Speaker 1 00:16:17 Um, it's so much more extensive. Yeah. You're going from taking like some oral medication in one shot for one cycle. So that's in one month you're doing about that two. Then you're paying 10 times more. Like it is it's as much as a down payment on a home. Oh, I know. And which is one side of it. That's hard. But then you go and you have a, you have an IVF coordinator they're so intense that you have a coordinator that gives you a map or gives you a calendar. Sorry, not a map. I calendar with what you take every day and how much of each shot you're taking every day. And when your, when your appointments are again, you come in multiple times a week to come check. All the embryos are not Amber, the eggs that you're growing. And it is so extensive and overwhelming in so many ways.
Speaker 1 00:17:07 So it's definitely a totally different beast. Was it hard to give yourself the shots? I didn't do it. My husband did it and I use it once a day. Or is it twice a day? The shots I had five in the morning, five, five actual pokes shot shot. And then is it just once that, that one time in the morning, or do you have to do something at night? Mine was just in the morning. The morning everyone's schedule is different. She is, that's a lot of needles. It's a lot. And he could do it every day for you though. I never had to do it myself. I mean, he didn't like hurting me, but he felt like, yeah, yeah, yeah. He felt really cool. And are you doing this month after month or so? So like, um, it depends on every IVF is a little bit different.
Speaker 1 00:17:48 So my first cycle, we kind of went at it one way. And my second cycle, we went out a different way. There are lots of different ways, different medication combinations, you know, different things that they can try. So the first one I took one little shot a day for like a month to prep my body. And then I took like four shots a day for a few weeks. And that's when they're trying to grow as many follicles eggs as I can. So IVF, you, you do it the full nine months, correct? No problem. So it's about them. It's about probably two months process for one cycle, but that's just, that's just collecting the aches. So they, okay. Yeah. Show you, you're going in and you're getting the eight you're getting, you're seeing how they're growing. You're adjusting your medication, which is just a rollercoaster in itself because you just, you want your you're invested so much in every sense. Yeah, totally. Physically, spiritually, emotionally, like you are so financially, you know, you are just in vested in this. It has become your life. And it's hard to focus on anything else. It's hard to be it's you know? And uh, so they, so you're on all the medications for a bed, then they want to get them to a certain size. And then you go in for the egg retrieval, which is like a surgery. Mmm. I actually have pretty funny story about my first one.
Speaker 2 00:19:10 Oh,
Speaker 1 00:19:11 At my clinic, you pay the anesthesiologist separately and they're like a contracted employee and he, everyone had talked on it. There's like a support group on Facebook. And it talked about how, right?
Speaker 2 00:19:23 The anesthesia they're like, it's the best part of the day. Like at least we get something good when we go in there and
Speaker 1 00:19:32 He comes in and he looks like McDreamy, Oh, wait a minute. Are you a Grey's fan? I've never watched. Oh, but he looks like, he looks like him. So I see like an older, like silver Fox test. Yes. Anyways. So then he, so they he's like, I'm like, don't say anything dumb. Cause you're going under, you know, I don't know. I was so worried. I was gonna say
Speaker 2 00:19:54 Attractive. And my husband's sitting right there anyways,
Speaker 1 00:19:58 But then he, he, he, he puts you out and the doctor comes in and okay. It's insane. Take the little tiny, yeah. Follicles out of your ovaries. And I had 30. Oh, that's a good number. Right? So you'll usually make one to two on a normal cycle. My ovaries felt like pomegranates. You could like feel them. Oh, wait a minute. I thought you were born with that. It might wrong. I thought you were born with the eggs that you have. Oh yeah, you totally are. So what do you mean? You got only. So like in a cycle, the amount of hormones you get only grow a certain amount. So there's tiny, tiny, tiny. And then as you it's on your cycle. Yes. They grow. Yeah. And then they opulate, but you are born with all of them. Okay. Okay. You might have to, you might have to edit this out, but isn't that it, your cycle, your period, you like dispose of like just one or two.
Speaker 1 00:20:55 Yeah. Do you want to do anything? Okay. I mean, you know, some people get pregnant with triplets naturally, so drop a few. Okay. So no, so he, he extracts the eggs, but so, because I was shooting up so much of a normal hormone, so they're just, <inaudible> what you normally would do by, you know, 30 like your mate or by, you know, tons. Yeah. You're making so much more so that you get the most out of it because you're paying so much. Absolutely. And your chances are better. Like not the more you have, but the more you have it, the right size. So absolutely. So from there they do. So then necklace Sri dish. Right. So yeah. They take them out and then you have the option of either just laying them in a bath of sperm and seeing if they fertilize or what's called SI.
Speaker 1 00:21:41 Okay. And XC is when they go under a microscope and they grab a sperm and they fertilize the egg. And is that where they can it, because I know that with IVF, you can kind of determine that male or female, right. Not with the sperm, not with, with the, with the egg. And is that under the microscope when it's just one, so that's, that's genetic testing. That's after genetic testing, after it's grown a bit, but you can do that crazy that you can even go that far. That's just crazy. My mind is kind of blown right now. So it's her details of it too. It's crazy. Most women don't even know all the things that they bought a year is doing to get pregnant. Yeah. I felt like we became experts in all these crazy things that you don't really even want to know, even want to know, or you need to know, but I think that's fascinating.
Speaker 1 00:22:27 That's amazing. So how do some women, I just know, IVF, some women end up with a lot of malls multiples. Right? How does that happen? So after you get <inaudible> follicles out, then once they are fertilized there called embryos. Huh. And that is right. You know, that's inception right. When they've got the, the egg and the sperm. So we did ECC because it was, well, you're already spending so much, it was a little bit more and you're guaranteeing that they're all going to get fertilized because you could go the other route and you just spent all this money with eggs. And then none of them got fertilized and they're, they're going, you know, so we were like, yeah, we're doing that. And then they watch them grow and see how they grow. And that's a whole nother roller coaster because you're getting calls about, okay, this many were mature in this many have already died off.
Speaker 1 00:23:17 And so I started with 30 and then by day two, I had 15. And then by day three, I had eight that had kept growing. So, you know, there just like, if you, in biology, the cells doubling, you know, the cells growing and, and so by day five is when you would transfer them. When they're, that's the age of the embryo that you put it in your uterus, that it would then implant and create a pregnancy. Right. But, um, I only had two, so I'd gone from 30. Okay. And it was that in and of itself was devastating because you've spent a lot of people go in thinking, Kay, I'm spending tens of thousands of dollars, but I'm going to get multiple embryos. And I will freeze a few freeze them. And I will have my whole family, like I am making this investment, but I'm going to have my whole family.
Speaker 1 00:24:09 And that does happen for a lot of people. I know lots of friends that have, you know, they bank eight, 10 embryos, you know, and they freeze them and hold on to them for the next year. And then a transfer is much easier than a retrieval. So if, if you didn't get pregnant with the first transfer, you'd unfreeze one of your embryos and you try it again. Yes. But I just had the two. No, is that typical for it? The number to show down that smoke. So two was pretty shocking. My doctor was pretty shocked and she was like, I think you should transfer both, which should have been a warning sign to me that maybe cause they really discourage you from transferring multiples. They don't want multiples. It's Jairus for a mom. They really want you to just get pregnant with one and definitely break the stereotype of getting pregnant with multiple.
Speaker 1 00:24:59 So she tells you to do, she says to do both. So put it all in. I mean, that's it right? And I was a little naive because IVF the end all and your mind almost can't fathom it. Not working like you almost can't go there. I mean, I was like, we're having twins and I had picked out a twin nurse, you know, you're looking at twin was like, Oh, this is the, the two car seats I would get. I mean, your mind as a woman just goes there because you already love your children, even though they're not there. Yes. Yes. They're in your heart YPO for they're in your body or in your arms. Absolutely. And so I was, so I felt pregnant. Alrighty. It's kind of how it feels. I had those two embryos and they, you know, they were my babies. They were only five days, but they were my babies and yeah.
Speaker 1 00:25:46 I was going to have twins and yeah. And, and uh, so we transferred them and you can find out, so you wait 10 days to get the pregnancy test at the clinic. And it's a blood pregnancy testing, they'll call you. And it it's the it's amount of HCG. It's a pregnancy hormone, that's in your blood and I'm, I, everyone does IVF differently, but I hated finding out, waiting and finding out the results on the phone. Like I always felt kind of blindsided. And so I would always take pregnancy tests and just try to find out first, because oftentimes you can see a line before that and they're just kind of pushing it back. Okay. To be safe. Yeah. So with that, um, first IVF, I took pregnancy test day six after transferring, it was positive. Mm. And cried and just absolutely. I mean just, you know, fall on the floor.
Speaker 1 00:26:42 Happy. I can't believe it. Yes. Tell my mom, you know, just tell him people close. So happy. Like finally just relief, you know? And then on the day of the blood test, it was, I was miscarrying already. So by day 10, they were already one or two, you know, but that was the hardest day of my whole life because you just can't picture IVF, networking. And not only did it not work, but we didn't have any embryos. We were left with nothing. It was like, we gave all of this and we're back at square one. That's just heartbreaking. It was and crushing at that point, are you feeling like, okay, I need a break from this or are you wanting to, just to mix forge ahead? Infertility in every stage is a mix of emotions because I just wanted it to be over. I just wanted a baby.
Speaker 1 00:27:31 So you want to push forward, but you also want it to be over in the sense, like, I don't want to deal with this. I don't want to keep moving forward. Um, and everybody handles it differently and everyone's personality is different. But for me, I only felt a little bit of relief if I was actually actively doing something. So I wanted to get back in and my husband was like, I think we should take a break. My doctor wanted me to take a break and get on some vitamins, try some other things. So we did wait a bit of a little bit, we went on a, we can vacation right. And get away. I mean, yeah. And how are you feeling through this? Are you just trying to distract yourself or you just devastate a bed? Like I feel like, yeah, with that cycle, I mean, I was angry.
Speaker 1 00:28:16 It was the cycles. I was angry. I was angry at God. I was, how could you, how could you do this to me? Like, I have done everything to create the place for a child to be healthy and happy, a happy home. Like I have sacrifice so much to create this home. I think that is what is so hard for me as an observer and a friend of a lot of women who have infertility issues, is there so many good, good homes that are craving babies and children. And it's like, why? And then there are so many situations that people who aren't wanting right, or aren't prepared or aren't in a great place and are getting pregnant. It's hard to reconcile them. It's unfair. Right. It's it feels completely unfair. And I remember crying to my mom one day and just saying, why would God do this to me?
Speaker 1 00:29:11 Like, why would God do this? And I think that's so normal. Well, it's valid. It's totally valid to feel that way. But she, yeah, it was such a blessing that my parents had been through infertility. I mean, I wish they wouldn't have had to go through it. Right. But most people don't get that. Most people don't get someone who's totally understands and has had those feelings. She said, Elise, God's not doing this to you. Your body's doing this to you. We live in an imperfect world with imperfect bodies, but he's crying for you too. She want this for you. But he, and, and that helped me not push my anger towards him because if I would have distanced myself from him, then I really would have fallen away of just like happiness. He's the only way you get through it. For me, that would be having a connection with, with God.
Speaker 1 00:30:00 And that was the darkest time because I was angry and I separated myself during that time. And my mom helped me refocus and see that like see a new perspective. Yeah, absolutely. Um, so you do end up doing IVF again? Yes. Okay. So I mean, it's very similar. We get about, we change a lot about how we did it. I added some extra meds that were extra expensive, you know, try to up it a little bit. And um, I mean, it did help a little bit. We ended up getting about 30 again retrieved and then every day fallen down at the end, we had four <inaudible> and which was double what we had the first time. It's still not great. And we were disappointed with it, how much they fell off. But we, it was weird. We almost felt like it was like a treatment that I had an illness of infertility and it didn't feel as hopeful.
Speaker 1 00:30:54 It just felt like we have to do this. Sure. We felt a little numb, just like numb to the whole process. We didn't, it had hurt so much to get our hopes up that we almost felt hopeless well, and you've become kind of pessimistic towards staffing. Yeah. And guarded, you just don't want that heartache. So we were totally guarded. We transferred two again and I w got pregnant and, um, the numbers kind of wobbled at first. Like they were a little bit lower than they wanted them, but then they jumped up really high. So just another rollercoaster. And they're like, no, you're for sure. Pregnant. Okay. They've gotten into a healthy range. And then I miscarried at six weeks. Oh my gosh. I am like on a roller coaster. I've not, I'm like expecting, we're going to move on and talk about the baby. And I did not realize there was just this much and it was hard because I had been pessimistic and then I'd find I got pregnant and was finally hopeful.
Speaker 1 00:31:49 And then it was taken out again and mentally I couldn't take anymore. We had the two frozen, but I was just spent, uh, rightfully so. I know. And how do we, I, I don't, I don't think I realized that miscarriage happened either. Yeah. That one was farther and, uh, harder in different ways. You know, it was always a new hard experience. Oh my gosh. Yes. You've been through so much. So then, um, we had the two frozen and we decided to, um, that I couldn't take another loss. And so my doctor said, you know, 95% of miscarriages are because the, the embryo is genetically abnormal. Mm. And what does that mean? So like, uh, something abnormal in the DNA. Oh. And so she said, this it's kind of new, but we can send, we can biopsy them, which I was like, they're tiny, but they can biopsy just the part that will be the embryonic SAC, not the baby.
Speaker 1 00:32:52 And they'll send that biopsy off, but that has all the DNA. Is that not incredible? It's insane. And they biopsy it off and then they send it off to be tested, to see the whole DNA strand, and then they freeze it again. And then you get the results. Hey, that's like mind blowing. I mean, it's you just think of all the things they've come evolved? My parents were one of them like very early on for IVF. They had to travel to a place that would do it. And it was very different. They would transfer like eight embryos because they thought it increased the chances. And now we know that's not true. Like totally different. It adapts every year. Whereas the sciences, I mean, I think the first IVF baby was in the eighties. Oh my gosh. This is not that long ago. It's very new technology technology and yeah.
Speaker 1 00:33:42 Medical advancements, medical advancements. That's the right word. So you do those two do turn out to be viable. Nope. Oh no, no. So we, well, so we, so we said, let's send them off and, and I get a call I'm at work and I get a call and they're like, ah, we were, we were throwing them. Cause they're frozen. We're throwing them in one of them just shriveled up and died in the thought. And, and I was just like, are you kidding? Are 98% of embryos survive, thought? And they're like that one, if it didn't survive, the thought it was definitely not genetically normal. So can we just have one left and the way it used to be? It's, it's changed now with paying for genetic testing. It's much more affordable now, even just in five years. But back then it was, you paid a one lump sum for up to eight embryos.
Speaker 1 00:34:33 Well, we only had one, so we paid 5,000 and, and the, um, the guy on the phone was like, do you want to test it? Like there, you had 60 embryos and all of them are gone and you just have this one, like, odds are odds are it's not going to be right. Like overwhelmingly odds are, it's not going to be, do you want to pay for that? And in my case, I just said, just test it. I mean, I was emotional because they had just told me the other one didn't make it. So, but then I sat and thought about it. I called my husband. I said, we should put that money towards adoption, you know? And towards our next step, like, there's no reason to, you know, and maybe later when we have the money, we can tell, we can keep it and test it and see then w you know, but I called back and they said, it's too late.
Speaker 1 00:35:22 We already, I absolutely did. Okay. But we started moving in other directions. We were very certain, it would not be genetically normal. We started moving towards, um, different options. There's you can get egg donors. We looked into adoption, they're adopting an embryo are lots of ways you can go. And since it seemed to be my eggs, weren't great. And, uh, but then we got the call, tell us good news. At least it was normal. They called me the clinic called me and they said, you will never believe it. But I was so unprepared. And, and she said, do you want to know the gender? Oh, because they can see, can see it. I can see it. And of course I said, yes, but I wasn't thinking I probably should have waited for my husband. Well, you have the right. You deserved the second that they told me it was a girl was the second.
Speaker 1 00:36:11 It was a connection. You know, that, I feel like it's just more, yeah. More than I'd ever known. Like, but it was different. I felt confident. It was a, I'd never gotten that far. Yeah. And everything went well after that, your pregnancy was fine. Yeah. It was. I mean, I was a little sick, you know? Yeah. I had some complications post-birth but, and are you considered a high risk pregnancy after going through this? You are? Well, no, not just because of IVF, IVF, pregnancy is totally normal. I was because of other underlying. Okay. Gotcha. So, I mean, wrapping up the IVF journey, are there any lights, tips, like looking back on your experience, are there any, anything you would say to him also kind to yourself? What do you mean by that? So like, I feel like I was really hard on myself because you feel so many things.
Speaker 1 00:37:01 Like I had never felt so much, especially negative things and that yeah. Spent so much energy being mad at myself for feeling those things. <inaudible> being frustrated with myself for not being able to control my anger or not being able to control my sadness or cause I didn't want to feel those things. Nobody wants to feel those things <inaudible> as soon as I just gave myself the permission to feel them and to just, you know, my dad gave me a really good tip that I've labeled book, ending feelings because I called him once before. I think we were at the clinic. I don't know, but I call them just crying and my dad's awesome. And he said, it's important to feel sad. It's important to feel. Okay. And to let yourself feel those things, but it's important to put an end on them because if you just say I'm sad and I'm sad all the time, then you'll spiral.
Speaker 1 00:37:56 But if you take control of the emotion and you say, I'm going to let myself feel this, but then in one day or in 20 minutes or in an hour, or, you know, whatever your time period is that you're going to feel that I'm going to do something that makes me happy or I'm going to serve someone else, or I'm going to go on a run or I'm going to, but it gave me the control back. Instead of the feelings controlling me, I felt like I took it some control back in my life of, of being able to say I feel these things, but I also, I am in slightly control. Okay. How I feel them when I feel them. I love that. Do you feel like, when did you, were you able to find peace in it all because I mean, it is such a, when the baby was in my arms.
Speaker 1 00:38:39 Yeah. Right. You're like I'm a hundred million percent breath until no, the baby is born, which is totally normal. I feel like, yeah. Well there's always a part of you. And do you know? I feel like even in a pregnancy that's not from IVF. Okay. That's and then you will worry about that child for the rest. Oh my gosh. You have to get accompanied with worry. Like it's just going to be part of your life. Absolutely. So, I mean, do you feel like this whole process shook your faith at all? Oh, definitely. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like if any thing that's really earth shattering will we'll shake it. But it's the, I remember. Yeah. I wrote in my journal when I realized that it was going to be a thing, there's a point where you realize, okay, I have infertility, like this is going to be a journey.
Speaker 1 00:39:30 It's not a trial for me. This is not like real. I'm not in that point where it's like, maybe, maybe not. And I said, yes, I remember thinking I can either let this take me down or I can let it make me stronger. And I love that. And I think that's like an overarching theme. And with any, with any struggle, whether it's depression, anxiety, death of a loved one, dealing with addiction, like whatever it is, it kind of goes back to give yourself that timeframe for yourself, that limit wallow in those feelings, feel those feelings, soak it all up, disengage, do whatever you need to do to deal. And then like you said, turn outward, come have a plan attack, go forward and don't let it. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. But I mean, you know, those people, you know, those people who have gone through something hard and you see their strengths <inaudible> and, but it's a choice and that's, I wanted that choice and I had the choice you make every day.
Speaker 1 00:40:28 Yeah. It's not like I'm going to choose this at the beginning and now I'll be strong. It's a choice. And it's a rollercoaster of like, there was a month where I wasn't making that choice where it was ruling me. I mean, it's a battle, but, but, but it's who comes out in the end. Yeah. No, absolutely. And yes, I totally agree. Did you have any, um, like apps or anything that you liked? No. No, not really. No. I didn't find, I think there's more advancement now with cycling, but I never really had a cycle. So none of those ever worked? Yes. No, for me. Um, you know, and both of your babies are IVF? No, no, no. Okay. So really quick, tell us about number two then. So we were, I was getting ready to like, let's do this again. My daughter was one and then I went in to have my hormones tested and I found out I had graves' disease.
Speaker 1 00:41:23 My thyroid was everywhere. And they said, you got to get this under control before you get pregnant. Or before you do IVF, we can't, you can't do IVF with your hormones all out of whack. So it felt like another stumbling block. You're like, are you kidding? I really was just like, what next? You know? Okay. Almost humorous in a way at that point. I didn't know. And I mean, I, I feel like with the second time around it, the feelings are very similar, but I also had a baby, you know, I was, so I was like, this is it. Mmm I'm okay. But I love that perspective because, um, I do think some, some women are slower to come to that, like being okay with if they had envisioned a family of eight, I think it's different. If, for me having never, I didn't have any children when I was going through IVF.
Speaker 1 00:42:14 And so just to have one, especially all the stumbling blocks and all the, I was just so overjoyed, but that doesn't discount. So it's called secondary infertility. If you already have a child and then you can't have another. And that was what my parents experienced and that doesn't take away from that being any less painful. I really learned that through all of that. I became a much more empathetic person experiencing grief myself. And I also learned that grief is very relative. Right. That it doesn't that something that, that I can't say, well, that's not as big of a trial as my trial. <inaudible> to the person experiencing it. It's big. Oh, absolutely. And that's all that matters if they're hurting. Okay. Oh, that matters. Yeah. A hundred percent. So tell us how you found out you were pregnant. So I, uh, was on these drugs for, for my graves' disease that I knew you couldn't take if you were pregnant. Okay. And one morning I woke up and I went, I always took them in the morning and I had it in my hand and I just had this prompting two, go take a pregnancy test. And I hate pregnancy tests. I mean, I've taken hundreds, no hundreds. I hate them. And I was like, I'm not going to do that. And then I went to take it in another right. Prompting, go take pregnancy tests. No, sir. Bye.
Speaker 2 00:43:35 I will go
Speaker 1 00:43:36 Take a pregnancy test. I took it. Just set it down immediately too bright. Yeah. Oh, my husband had no clue. I was taking pregnancy tests. Had no clue I had any, because I didn't have any inkling at all. It was very early, which was great. Cause then there was no problem with taking the meds. I was, I was all right. I stopped right away. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I screamed, I pregnant to my husband. My husband's
Speaker 2 00:44:00 First response, we just saved so much money. Is that not the truth though? Oh my God. Ivy has expensive. We'd already done it twice. So what a miracle. It was, it was a total miracle.
Speaker 1 00:44:15 Mmm. So grateful. It's not how it is for a lot of people. <inaudible> and Oh my gosh. But I just love those stories where we have close friends, um, of my husband's actually where they tried for like 15 years, they adopted two. And then all of a sudden they got pregnant. Yeah. Yeah. And they're like, Oh my God, there are a lot of stories of all kinds of crazy things happening, miracles, miracles, but it's you can't okay. I dunno. Yeah. One of the problems that I found with infertility, for those who are listening, who having experienced infertility, one of the hardest things, when you tell someone is when people just say, Oh, my cousin did this and my aunt did this, you know, like, and Oh, have you tried this? And they did this. They just want to hear it. I'm sorry. Yeah. Okay. That's good to know.
Speaker 1 00:45:08 Yes. If you don't know what to say to someone going through infertility, you say it, I'm so sorry that you were experiencing this. And is that enough? I mean, how a hundred percent. That is enough to say I'm so sorry. I love you. <inaudible> I am so sorry. This is unfair. Right? Right. I wish I could fix this for you. You know, how can I help you? I know just reinforce those feelings that you have there because when you, when you say my aunt did this, or it gives the impression that they think you're not trying things or that you haven't looked into everything and it's like, you don't understand, I've looked into everything like, yeah, I have done everything. <inaudible> if someone ask for your advice or ask, did you knew anyone? Or, you know, that's when you're open, most people only ask for advice from someone who's been through infertility.
Speaker 1 00:45:58 Oh, absolutely. And I think that's so fair. I think that's so valid. But I do think, I mean, Lauren and I ourselves, we are always asking ourselves that question, like, how can we support? That's one of the biggest questions I get. And I think that things that helped me the most were not hesitating. Sometimes it's uncomfortable. It's not the easiest thing to talk about or the easiest thing to know about someone else. And especially when you don't know what it's like to know how to help someone. But good examples in my experience are just trying. Yeah. Because as someone going through it, I learned very quickly that people would say things that were insensitive, but that doesn't mean it. That's only going to hurt me. If I let it hurt me, that's a good perspective because they're most of the time their intentions. Good. And of course, sometimes it's like, Oh goodness, that was, yeah.
Speaker 1 00:46:51 That was a little insensitive or frustrating. And you think at first second, but to not well on it, because it's going to happen. And it made me realize that I probably say insensitive things about other people's things. It made me very much just resort to I'm very sorry. It's a very safe thing that validates someone what they're going through and yeah. Yeah. Totally. Well, thank you for sharing your story. I think so many people are curious about IVF, who don't go through it. I mean, yeah. I've always been and I've never really had a detailed account like this. So this is really good to know. Um, I have to switch gears a little bit because we love following you. Like I said, on Instagram, you're always doing DIY projects, my new obsession. Yes. And grow you man. A power tool. Fun. Yeah. She built the swing that we're looking at.
Speaker 1 00:47:48 Girl. I know she did now. I, I, I'm only, I'm a new follow to you more in the last few months now what came first light kind of having the extra time because you didn't have babies. So you worked on the house or the babies came and you wanted to create the home. I have always loved so stuff like HGTV when I was young and I'd go to home Depot, I just ask for the magazines that had the floor plans and I've got FIMS just so I could make the home, never played with actual people. No. Just wanted to build all these homes and decorate them. So I've always loved that. And my mom loves that and we'd always, you know, when we first got, when I first got married, my mom and I went, I decorated the whole apartment. So how did you start doing all these things yourself?
Speaker 1 00:48:34 And so encouraging the husband, you had the building things. My husband took like woodworking in high school and yeah, it's very handy. And so there are a few things that I was like, I like this, we should do this. And so in our old house he would do it and I'd watch him. But he's very good at empowering me. And he'd be like, Hey, your turn, you know, you use this tool. And for a long time, I was like, no, no, I don't want it touch that. And uh, but then once we do one and it's, so it saves so much money to do things yourself, crazy how much money it saves. We're on different sides of her husband can do anything. Yeah. Okay. My husband probably could too. He's just like, he doesn't care to you. Honestly. He works a corporate job. He's busy.
Speaker 1 00:49:19 It's not what he wants to spend his extra timeline. Well, that's my husband. He could do it for me. Yeah. And on some things he'd be like, okay. And usually it was like, okay, it's your birthday? What project do you want? And then I got to a point that was like, I will, I'm just going to do it myself. I'll wait around for him. Yeah. I kind of realized, like I was always bugging him being like, so I really want to add born and Batten in Israel. It's your thing would work. You like what? I love what Rick. Yeah. I think it's really fun. Yeah. So then I mean the age of technology and information, and you can learn anything, YouTube university, YouTube, Google other people. And it's a challenge. It's fun because it incorporates a lot of things. I like home. I love doing things with my hands.
Speaker 1 00:50:06 I feel like it's very therapeutic. I love, it's kind of like a puzzle where you got to figure it out. Yeah. I love geometry. And we're also sitting in the office here where we're staring at your new bookcase, your new builtin bookcase. I'm just so impressed. I know. That's beautiful. You really have done such a good job. Thank you. It's fun. Well, um, anything else you want to on? I don't know. I guess the one thing I didn't talk about was hope. Yes. Yeah. Hold on that. Yes. During infertility, it's very hard. Stay hopeful and Mmm, my, where I learned what the true meaning of hope, wasn't the purpose. Cause I felt like, what is the purpose of hoping for this one? My hope is what makes it so crushing every month? Cause it feels like it's the hope when I'm so excited and I'm hopeful that it's going to happen.
Speaker 1 00:50:57 That then it's like brings you lower when it it's not right. And so one month I was like, I'm not going to be hopeful at all. We were doing an intra uterine insemination. And I was like, I'm just not, I'm going to plan on it. Yeah. And then when I get the negative, it won't be as painful. And when it got to the point that I got the results and it was negative, it was not as painful. It was slightly less painful. Cause I plan on it that way. But I looked back at that whole month and I was so unhappy. Like I was so unhappy in comparison to the months that I had. Nope. And I learned that hope is not about the end result. It's about how you feel during the process. Well, and I really believe in the power of positive. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:51:40 And I'm not saying, Oh my gosh, if you think happy, positive thoughts, it's going to cure you. Of course. No. It changes your think, like having the right Headspace, right. Mental space to kind of go through any hardship. Yeah. Like it does help you get through it. It helped me be happy. Yeah. It's just what I found in like my demeanor and the rest of the day. So like, what I determined was that the day that I found out it was negative was worse when I was hopeful. But then all the rest of the days we're better and that's worth it. Absolutely. I think we could all use a little more hope. Yes. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of a crazy scary time for us, 20, 20. You guys, what happened? What happened 20, 20? I think we all could just put a little hope in, you know, our hearts and our minds to just like look for a better tomorrow.
Speaker 1 00:52:34 Yeah. It's just, you know, it's been rough, it's been rough. And I think that's a great perspective. I mean, we may not get the end result right. When we want it, but at least that's going to make the next few days a little better. I guess. I hope, I hope I, I love that. And I think we should wrap up on that. Yeah. We usually do a hit and miss in every episode, but we, we went long on time. So I think we'll just wrap on, on that on hope. And um, again, we're so grateful that you joined you for having me yes. And sharing this story with you guys. I know, seriously. I wish we lived in Utah. It would be fun to hang out and be my neighbor. She's our art kind of girl, but no it's been, I mean it's hard and raw and real to open up with such a story.
Speaker 1 00:53:17 And I mean, and just the heartache and loss, but also your hope. And I think you really, I think so many women will benefit from your story. Well, for me, it's been hugely educational. It honestly has like, I've never really known the difference between our UI. Are you a chef? I don't know all the idea. Yeah. There's a lot of I use, so I'm in no way. Yes. Knowledgeable about that. The only thing that's good. Yeah. Come out of infertility is helping others. Yeah. So it's been grass. The only good thing I know it's flush musher and your beets. And of course the baby, of course, but I would have been happy if the babes came without them. I know it's true, but you were super vulnerable and we really appreciate that. I think a lot of women need to hear this message. And if anything, like if they're not going through infertility again, I think it helps you be a more compassionate friend and knowing the depth of the journey and like how hard of a process it really is.
Speaker 1 00:54:14 So that's kind of the purpose here, so. Okay. Well, um, give us your handle on Instagram countries of happiness at hunters of happiness, your website is happiness.com. There you go. And you guys go find her. She's a great follow. I don't even know how I stumbled upon awareness. You're just a doll. And I know, I know. And now we're friends. No, I'm kidding. Um, but um, yes, you can find us on Instagram, minimally at the mom boys podcast. And if you like, what you hear, please go subscribe to the show and leave us a rating and a review. We are back every Monday with a new episode. And if you're ever in Arizona, you come, you come stay with us. I'll be there. Come back. Thanks so much for listening. Take care of each other.
Speaker 0 00:54:57 <inaudible>.
