Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:09 Hi friends. Welcome to the mom, boys. This is my very first time being a solo recording without, and I miss her so much that we have been talking about doing a bonus episode that is strictly about how I sleep training my children and for quite some time now. And we thought with her traveling this week, while she's on vacation, it might be a good time for us to put it out. So we've talked about it and she gave me the go ahead. And so I'm sitting here and today we are going to discuss how I sleep, train all three of my children that before I get going, I just want to ask any of you who are new around here.
Speaker 1 00:00:53 Please go subscribe to the show. You can pause it right now, jump over, press that button, and then come right back. And if you enjoy what you hear today, we would love for you to leave us a rating and a review, or to share us with your friends. It really is the only way that we're able to grow the show. So any love that you can throw at us, we will gladly take, and we really, really appreciate it. Um, last week I shared on Instagram stories, my bedtime routine with my children. And, um, I got so much good feedback from so many of you. So I just want to say thank you to everybody who took the time to write in. I used all of those questions and thoughts to really formulate, um, the content for this episode. But honestly, when I was sitting down to kind of map out what I was going to say, I realized that there really is just so much that I could say on this topic, like sleep training is, was a huge part of my life and my motherhood.
Speaker 1 00:01:49 And I literally just have like so much to say that, trying to map my thoughts out for this episode was a little difficult. So a lot of your questions focused around like problematic toddlers, um, ones who are getting out of the bed or even babies. And when, when to start sleep training or what method I used or things like that. So what you're going to hear in this episode, I'm going to cover the different methods and the books that I used as a guide in my own sleep training process, the ages that I started sleep training for each of my children, you're going to hear a lot of the little details that I thought made a really big difference. Um, but instead of giving you like detailed schedules and products and things like that, I'm opting to give you more of a high level overview of kind of what my methodology is.
Speaker 1 00:02:41 Um, and then after that, I'm going to go into giving you a few tips. So my top tips on how you can make your sleep training a success story, because let's be real unless you get your head right. And you're committed to it as the adult and as the parent sleep training can be like the most frustrating draining experience ever. And I, I would just never wish that on anyone I have been there and I know how it feels. It is just the worst. So towards the middle of the show, towards the end, I'm going to be sharing my absolute top tips of what you need to be doing as the adult, before you set out on sleep, training your child. Um, also, I really just want to say really quick that I hope my story serves to encourage you instead of do the opposite.
Speaker 1 00:03:32 Um, I, in no way want you to think that I live in this perfect home where my kids don't cry and they don't throw fits or anything like that, they absolutely do. We have those moments. We have our, our, our yelling fits and all of the things, but what I have seen throughout my parenting journey thus far, and yes, I've only been a parent at almost eight years. So I'm still very early in the process. But what I have found is that there is a drastic decline in those naughty moments and those frustrating moments when we're all getting the sleep that we need. And by, by all of us, I mean, every member in the family, I just want to encourage you to keep trying. If you've had problems, sleep training your children thus far, there is a solution for it. I don't want you to give up a lot of parenting is trial and error.
Speaker 1 00:04:21 We know that. And a lot of things, when you come up, the problem is just researching it to death. Okay. I feel like Google is, I have a totally love, hate relationship with it because I feel like all the answers to my parenting questions are out there. It's literally just taking the time to kind of read through it all and then do that trial and error process to see what's going to work and fix the problem that we're having also to go along with the not giving up. I also just want to say met your whole family to this process. Get everyone involved. Even the older siblings, your husband, everybody, when you do really commit to sleep training, the whole family needs to be committed to try and figure it out and get everybody back on track. I've said this to Lauren over the years.
Speaker 1 00:05:07 So many times that whenever we did hit a speed bump in our sleep training, it became my highest priority as a parent, my husband and I, we literally had no higher priority at that time than to get our sleep back on track because we feel like it is that vital of a component for our family to function in a healthy manner. So again, the message here is encouragement trying don't give up. This is just my story and what has worked in my family, but you know, your children, you're the mom, you are there with them day in and day out. So maybe take some ideas. I see here, some of the books that I refer you to here in the websites and go read for yourself and then put on top of it, your own mother's intuition and the things that you think will work well for your children. Okay. So with that, let's jump right in
Speaker 2 00:05:58 To give you a quick background on myself. I'm Sarah, I'm the, I don't really have straight hair. Lauren has the curly blonde hair and I'm the, the other one. I'm the tall one. Um, we have to differentiate ourselves quite a bit because I think sometimes it's hard for people to put the face to the name, but Lauren is the one who typically opens the show. And then I'm the one who typically closes the show. So a little bit of background about myself. I would classify myself as kind of a type, a more structured person. I worked in a corporate job before I became a mom for many years and I thrived in that environment and I really enjoyed it. Um, I'm a problem solver, so I don't tend to go with the flow very well. I think I want things very structured and predictable where I can kind of plan my day out around that.
Speaker 2 00:06:47 I'm a, I'm a list maker. I love making lists and checking things off my list. And so anyways, so that's kind of a little bit of background about my personality. I think a lot of the fun with the podcast comes because Lauren and I are so different in a few and you know, some ways personality wise, she balances me out and as much more of a fun loving kind of takes life as it comes tight. But then we also have so many similarities when it comes to like our morals and our faith and like how we raise our children. So I think that's kind of where some of the magic comes with the mom voice. Um, but I want to just kind of explain for you the side that I am. I'm the more, the more, um, what is the right word I'm looking for?
Speaker 2 00:07:33 I guess type a is the only way to say it. I am the more type a of the equation. Okay. So let's go to travel back in time to 2012. I have my daughter in November. It was November six, 2012. After a long exhausting pregnancy. I was not one who enjoyed being pregnant at all. I had leg issues where my legs hurt at night. I swear I was up peeing 20 times at night. Like I just was miserable. I gained, I shared this on the podcast before I gained 65 pounds with my daughter, no shame at all, but like the weight was just flooding on me for some reason. And it was just very depressing and there were just a lot of changes coming at me very quickly. Like I said, I was working previous to that. I had never had a problem really with my weight.
Speaker 2 00:08:24 And then all of a sudden I did quit my job to be home with her because motherhood was something that I held very close to my heart and almost like a sacred role. And so I had always planned on being at home with my children as much as possible. Like if our life circumstance was going to allow me to be home with my child while I was raising them, then I was going to do everything. Yeah. I could do to do that and fulfill that role. So I did, I quit my job leading up to having her. And I think if any of you met working mothers out there, no, that's an adjustment in itself when you're around a lot of intellectuals and people who adults, let's be real adults who you can talk to all day about things going to, being at home by yourself with a newborn that's very, very hard in its own way, right.
Speaker 2 00:09:18 That really nobody can understand unless you live it. It's very hard to kind of comprehend what that, what that actually feels like. So let's go to, I had Kate instant love you guys, like instant. I fell in love with her the day. The second I saw her well before that, honestly, obviously, but like, you know, the fills all the fills in the hospital, you immediately are just like, Oh my gosh, I'm going to give it all to this child. I'm going to do everything right by her. I, all the things, right. You're like just promising her. You're going to take care of her and you're going to teach her all the things. And so I went into it just elated, right? The first two weeks were like, Cloudnine heaven. I did struggle a lot with breastfeeding from the jump right away. Breastfeeding was super hard for me.
Speaker 2 00:10:09 I don't know. I just didn't, I wasn't one of those lucky moms who just had the abundance of milk and I stressed a lot about it, shocker. Right. I had a lactation consultant come over all the things. So I feel like I was stressing very early on about breastfeeding, not even about sleep. I kind of just let her sleep when she would, I would hold her all the time. Leading up until this point. I had not read one parenting book. I didn't follow any parenting blogs. I had not even thought to educate myself about parenting. I really had thought it's something that would just come very natural to me and something that I wouldn't have to educate myself on, like everything else in life. Right. I, I thought this was going to be the one thing that I can nail. I don't have to learn about, but I was so wrong. So Kate and I did figure out the breastfeeding thing. We kind of got it down to a science, but she was a very, um, I don't want to say unhappy baby, but she required a lot of attention. And she wanted me to be with her all the time. And it's funny that that is still the case today.
Speaker 3 00:11:21 We laugh because she
Speaker 2 00:11:23 Wants to be around people 24 seven. Like she,
Speaker 3 00:11:26 She loves people.
Speaker 2 00:11:28 He is an extrovert, like all the things. And so when I think back to her as a newborn, it is so true. She wanted mom or dad or anybody who would give her, you know, cute heart eyes. She wanted their attention all the time. I just kind of laugh when I think back to vacuuming my house, like in the Babybjorn with, with her in the Bjorn, you know, I'm literally like trying to clean my house. A baby's attached to me. I can, I can think back to those times, you know, you all have done it. Um, and it's just like, Oh my gosh, what was I doing? What was I doing? But this is before I decided to sleep. And at this point, I didn't even know there was a thing called sleep training. I really didn't. Um, but cut to let's say six months.
Speaker 2 00:12:13 Okay. So by the six month, Mark, Kate has been sleeping in our room. My husband and I, I had a pack in place set up right next to my side of the bed. Um, because honestly Lauren did that with her oldest and I really kind of went off what she did. But again, Lauren and I are very different. She is such a good sleeper herself. She's a sound sleeper. I was kind of going crazy with heat in my room at the six month Mark, because I struggle with sleep so bad myself. It's very hard for me go to sleep. And then something happened magically. When I had a child where I could hear every little sound, I could hear like every little gurgle, any call, like any little movement of her, again, the sheet or the blanket, like I could hear it and it woke me up.
Speaker 2 00:13:06 And so come the six month Mark, we are, none of us are sleeping. Well, my husband, he, I mean, he's a sound sleeper and he sleeps great. But she and I, we are not sleeping. She's waking me up every two hours to quote unquote in quotations, eat, which I think she just wanted to check that I was, I don't know what she was wanting. She could not have been hungry. She ate so much. I know she did. And she was a little cheaper. I'll show you guys the picture at this Mark. She got very chunky and chubby and all the little love handles so quickly. She was not hungry. Okay. And then I was just beat. I was so tired at the six months Mark, because you guys know how it is. Like when you're getting waken up annually throughout the day and throughout the night, you just start to feel like you're surviving, saving on naps.
Speaker 2 00:14:00 Like you're not even, you don't even feel human anymore. To some degree I can remember saying to my husband, I can't remember the last time got eight consecutive hours of sleep. Forget eight. Let's say five or six. Right? I cannot remember the last time I got that many hours consecutively because I was still breastfeeding at that point. And leading up to her birth, I had a really rough pregnancy. Like I said, I was up all night. My legs were, I had restless legs syndrome with her. So I was just sleeping miserably. And I think the added weight, all of it on my body. I just, I swear you guys, at that point, I had not slept good in over a year and I was starting to lose my mind. So talking to Lauren, my mom, different people in my life about this. Lauren had mentioned to me way back, she's like, Hey, there is this book I read when Tristan was like, it's called baby wise.
Speaker 2 00:14:56 You need to check it out. Maybe it will help. BU you know what I mean? Lauren always had pretty good sleepers as a baby, as babies. So I don't know if she really gravitated towards it to the degree that I did. Like when I found baby wise, it literally changed my life and I don't want to oversell it, but I kind of want to oversell it because there are two books that I ended up reading. Like literally every word, putting pencil notes in the margins, tagging things, like all the stuff. Literally I stopped bodied these books as if it was like my, um, thesis in college. Right? Like it became my life's mission to get a hold of my daughter's sleep because reading different things, it started to Dawn on me. Okay. We're all miserable right now because nobody's sleeping. And I know how exhausted I am.
Speaker 2 00:15:49 Imagine how exhausted she is. Right. So the two books that I highly highly recommend, I give you all of that background just to kind of paint the picture of where we stood before I started sleep training. Okay. I could go way more in depth, but I'm already 12 minutes in and I promised you some sleep training tips on this episode. But my point is I have been there. I know the feelings, I know the frustration. I know the crying nights, all of it. Okay. And that's just the newborn stage. We could go into the toddler years later with my, with my son, um, because that's a whole nother frustration, but my point is, I feel you, I get you. And I know that there is no more frustrating thing in life. Well, okay. Maybe not nothing, but it's hard. And that's my point. It's very hard.
Speaker 2 00:16:34 And I want to validate those feelings. So the two books that I really really came to love were on becoming baby wise by Gary <inaudible> and then healthy sleep habits. Happy child by dr. Mark why's Bluth. I think why's Bluth. Yeah. I started off with healthy sleep habits. It's a thicker book and much more intimidating to read. I mean, personally, just for me, I'm not a huge reader. And at the time there was not audible where you could listen to things. So you did have to actually sit down and read the book. But I really connected with a lot of what he said in that book and the science behind it. And it really explained like the mindset of a newborn and of a child. And it kind of puts it in perspective what healthy habits they need to be a happy child and that, Hey, you can't expect them to be happy and smiling and playing and having like a good spirit throughout the day.
Speaker 2 00:17:31 If they're not getting any rest at night, I mean, we're cranky when we don't sleep well. Why do you expect them not to be cranky when they're not sleeping well? Right. So he kind of draws the lines for you in that book about what they need, what their needs are from more of a scientific method, which I really liked. And then baby wise, so on becoming baby wise, it's short name is baby wise. That one was a much shorter read and it's a much more direct kind of, um, book for lack of better words. They literally have places his schedule's in there where you can write things down, like make note of your schedule and all of the things, a lot critics are out there for baby wise. At the time when I was raising my daughter, there were kind of two methodologies floating around there was attached parenting.
Speaker 2 00:18:22 And then there was like the baby wise method. Yeah. Very different. Like polar opposites, baby wise was you sleep train early on. You teach your child become less dependent on you. They teach themselves how to put themselves to sleep. They learn how to self soothe, things like that. Whereas on the other hand, attachment parenting is more about, um, you know, letting baby be with you whenever they want to be with you. You can bed share things like that. I think both of them are grounded and great reasoning. And I looked into both, to be honest, I read all about attachment parenting and I thought, Oh, because I, again, I get the method. I, I get the thought behind it. You want your child to feel secure and loved. And that you're always there for them, all the things I totally get that was it practical for me, my life and my personality.
Speaker 2 00:19:20 Absolutely not like it was not tended to go towards baby wise. And you guys, this is just me. Once I set myself to do something, I'm doing it a hundred percent. Like I'm all in. Okay. So the book of a very, literally my husband on board, I'm telling him, okay, we're about to make some changes, like lock it down. And we started implementing the baby wise method. Okay. A lot of critics of the book think that it it's way too harsh because they do, they are a proponent of cry it out. You know, CIO. I think a lot of people think cry it out as like you just shut the door and you walk away and you don't ever like check on them. You guys cry it out is literally way more harder or on the mom than it is on the child. Let me just say it right now because the mom is sitting right, right outside that door.
Speaker 2 00:20:13 She's crying right there with that baby. Like all, all of it. I've done it. Okay. But let me just tell you, ride out does not mean you just walk away and don't ever come back. I never let my children cried out for more than 30, the 45 minutes without them knowing that I was there. And I'll go into that in a little bit more detail. Okay. Did I follow baby wise to the letter? No, I did not. Did I follow happy health? What is it? Happy babies. Healthy sleep, happy babies. No, I didn't. I took situation and I took my personality and my child's personality and I kind of melded the two together and we kind of created our own method, but it's very heavily based in baby wise. Okay. And really quick, a couple of reasons why I gravitated towards baby wise so much and why I love it to this day so much is that I feel like it gave me that order and that scheduling and that predictability that I needed in my life and that I was craving.
Speaker 2 00:21:18 Okay. I was getting nothing done because I felt like I was literally just sleeping when she was sleeping. I had no energy to do any cleaning, laundry, anything. I was literally just a zombie. And so I feel like baby wise kind of implemented schedule for us where we both kind of had that predictability during the day where it just gave us say and more peaceful atmosphere in our home. The other thing that I really love about it is that I feel like as my children have gotten a little bit older, I have truly seen, and I'm like testifying you right now that it just takes care of the sleep problem that so many parents are facing today. Like sleep is just not a problem in my house. My children, no that when it's time to go to bed, it's bedtime. As they've gotten older, the rules have become more flexible.
Speaker 2 00:22:15 So I might allow my daughter to leave her life light on at night and read a book, but she knows she's not coming out of her room unless she needs water or to go to the bathroom, but she doesn't abuse those. Right. So what I'm trying to say is it's allowed sleep to become a nonissue in my house and we'll see how it goes as they get older. But baby wise very much reinforces the, the, um, how do I say this? The rule, I guess that the makes the rules in the home and the child should obey them. And a lot of the things that baby wise teaches roots in obedience. Okay. And I'll just say that for lack of better words, there's a lot of terms they use for it. But I have always read it as you're trying to raise an obedient child.
Speaker 2 00:23:09 So whether it comes to them, throwing their food on the ground or them demanding things or whatever it might be, they always need to understand that no, mom's in charge. Our dad is in charge and you're, you're not right. So same thing goes with sleep. And I'm so grateful for that. My husband and I joke all the time. I'm always like, you know, I'm going to be the bad guy. They're going to think that I'm the bad guy. And he's like, no, they just know that you mean business. Once you hit a certain level, because, and what he means by that is my children know when I hit a tone of voice, the, I do mean business and that there is no negotiation that we're done with the back and forth or anything like that. And they do end up obeying and doing what I'm asking them to do.
Speaker 2 00:23:58 And so it's kind of a funny thing, but I feel like without baby wise, we would not have that. I feel like with my dad daughter's personality and especially my middle child, he would, you would give me much more problem than I think I have today, if I would not have implemented baby wise with him early on. Okay. Um, and I mean on the obedience side, and then there's a lot of other things that I use as well in parenting. I love the five love languages, and I've tried to always have that in the back of my head when I'm parenting to make sure that my children are feeling that I love them and that they feel that our home as a safe place and that they feel loved there. So, I mean, there's a lot of methodologies. I just don't want to, I don't want you to think like it's baby wise or nothing.
Speaker 2 00:24:48 I use a lot of parenting techniques in our home and, but I do count a lot of the piece home from baby wise. Okay. So I give you all of that background to give you these tips. Number one, when it comes to sleep training, educate yourself, do your homework, take the time, read, listen, the podcasts, listen to books, do whatever you can to get all the information. I feel like once I started educating myself, not only on sleep training, scheduling methodologies that are out there, but on the actual science of how babies operate and how their brains need sleep in order to grow and develop like all the things that we see every single day around us, baby, these are trying to put into context and file away in their brain and make sense of it at all. Their brains are in overdrive during the sleep.
Speaker 2 00:25:48 And it's when they're categorized, cataloging, everything that they've learned throughout the day, how the, it all goes up and down how it bounces, what mommy is feeling when she smiles, what mommy's feeling when she's sad, like all of those things, baby processes, all of these things, right? Their brain. When they sleep. When I say educate yourself, I mean, it really helped to give me purpose. And it helped encourage me during the hard times that, okay, this is why we're sleep training. It's because I want my child to succeed and I want them to be happy. And I want them to be able to thrive and are house to be a peaceful place. Right. It kind of gives you that encouragement, actual fact based encouragement of why you're doing something, the purpose, the purpose behind it. So that's what I mean when I say educate, not only on the schedule, not only on the methodology, but why you're doing it, the purpose behind why you're doing it, it will help you to keep going.
Speaker 2 00:26:53 Right. Because I can promise you, it's going to be hard. You're going to find some nights where it's brutal and some naps where it's brutal. Okay. Trust me. I have had it. It has not been embraced, but all in all, I feel like looking back, it's been so much better than if I had not done my homework. Okay. Number two, be consistent, be committed and be willing to sell. Nice a lot. Okay. Um, what I mean by be consistent? What I'm saying, there is nothing will work in parenting unless your consent point blank period, your child has last to know that when you say something, you mean it and that an action will have a consequence. So this goes for behavior for D. So planning for sleep training for, um, manners, food, how they speak to you. All of it, there has, has to be consistency.
Speaker 2 00:27:51 This is something that I learned very early on in my parenting. And I'm so grateful that I came across this, uh, this tip, honestly, I don't even know where I got it, but it was that consistency is key in parenting. And then if you don't get a hold of it in the early years, it will just magnify in the later years. And so, as you embark on sleep training, you have to have that in the back of your head. Consistency, consistency, consistency. If you set a 7:00 AM, wake up time, you wake up at seven, am you set that alarm? You don't sleep in. You go wake that baby up at 7:00 AM. Okay. It does get more flexible. That's after you've already established the habits. Okay. You have, have to be consistent in the early, in the early days of sleep training. Um, when I say, be committed, I mean, don't have acid.
Speaker 2 00:28:44 I'll just say it bluntly. Okay. When you're committed, you pick what you want to do. You pick the method that you're going to do and how you're going to go about it. And you commit to it because I think it's a disservice to your child. And it's a disservice to yourself. If you're jumping around between different ideas and you're trying different things every other week, it confuses baby. It exhausts you. And it just creates a whole cloud of frustration in the home. So that's what I mean. When I say, be committed, really do your homework. Like I said, in step one, pick the methodology of how you want to go about it and then commit to it. Okay. Be committed. The next thing I would say is you have to be willing to sacrifice. There have been so many things that I sat out of in the early days of sleep training.
Speaker 2 00:29:31 Okay. Family reunions played zoo dates. Like that list goes on and on and on and on because I wasn't willing to sacrifice her schedule in the early days. And same for my boys. As I added children to the family, when we were trying to establish their sleep patterns, we all set. <inaudible> the whole family in order for baby to get their naps in. So you have to be willing to sacrifice. The next bullet point I would say is communicate the plan, tell your partner, I'm kidding. Communicate with your partner is what I'm trying to say and be on the same page about it. So hopefully you have a supportive partner who will support you in your mission and someone who is willing to be on board and willing. I just back you up. I had a very supportive husband. I took the lead and he, he followed in step like very much.
Speaker 2 00:30:28 He was so on board. He wanted me to be happy and he knew that if I could get to sleep, if I was able to sleep, our life would be a lot better. So communicate be on the same page with your partner. This goes for anything in parenting, really, especially sleep training. You two have to be on the same page before you approach the child. My fourth tip is, write things down physically or on your phone. Keep a log of every little thing you guys. I wish I would have kept my notepad on my phone from all those years ago, because I literally had it down to the minute when she woke, when she peed, when I did it change, like all the things keep a log. Okay. Because that's how you'll start to see, um, how much time she sleeping, how much wake time you need.
Speaker 2 00:31:17 The book goes into a lot more detail on nap, time length, wake, time, link, things like that, that I could do another whole area. So Don probably, but keep a log. It will vary very much help you as with anything, right. It just helps to write things down because you think you're going to remember them. And then you don't. So write it all down. Number five is establish your routine and keep it within 15 minutes. And what I mean by that is if you set a wait time of, so let's say you're on like a six month schedule. I think you're still around three, three naps at that age. So let's say you wake at seven you're down for nap at 9:00 AM. Then you wake around 1130. Do lunchtime, go down again for second nap around one o'clock and then you're up around three. Probably.
Speaker 2 00:32:05 You have a tiny little cat nap around five, four 35 o'clock for 30, 45 minutes. And then back in bed at 7:00 PM. Okay. That's like a, a rough six months schedule. What I mean by keep it within 15 minutes is the wait time. If your 7:00 AM wake up time, you get in there by six 45 or by seven 15, but don't let it very much longer than 15 minutes on either end. And the same goes with nap. Start times. Any experience mother out there will tell you that you have a window when it comes to naps before you the meltdown, right? So you want to try and get baby in bed by the time at that optimal window when they're tired and they can put themselves to sleep without being overly tired and just melting down for lack of better word. So establish that routine and then keep it within 15 minutes.
Speaker 2 00:32:57 Number six is I think you constantly have to reinforce the concept that your home is going to be led by the parent and not by the child. This is a very, very broad concept throughout baby wise, that it's parent directed instead of child directed. So yet you're just wanting to reinforce the idea with your child, that what mom says goes, and there's not a negotiation, there's not a discussion. And that's how it is. It's a parent directed home. That's a big concept. When you actually think about the statement because in today's society, a lot of times it's flipped. We have so much guilt as mom and guilt as dad. We just want to pour on the love and we want to give them everything. And we want them to feel happy and taken care of and all the things. And oftentimes I feel like that comes with the child, directing things, what they want to eat, where they want to go, what time they, you know, all the things, right?
Speaker 2 00:33:59 Baby wise very much flips that on its script. And it's living in a structured and a scheduled way. Personally, in my home, we live a very structured life. It's the only way that I can survive. Now as a working mother, I have to have schedule and I have to have predictability. And that's something that the schedule, the baby wise, the sleep training. It allowed me to have that predictability throughout my day. And honestly, I think my children, they thrive on that. They want to know what's coming next. They want to know what their day is going to hold. So reinforcing that your home is going to be parent led. You're going to have to keep that in the back of your head at all times, I feel like throughout sleep training, and then later on in parenting, I mean, I'm telling that to my husband all the time.
Speaker 2 00:34:49 I'm like, as my daughter gets more and more, um, you know, she's getting more and more of what I want to say, independent outspoken. I'm constantly saying to him, is she confused? Who makes the rules in this house? Do you know what I mean? So, yes, I digress the last one that I just want to say bullet points of when you're implementing sleep training is just really poor on the love during wait time. So a lot of times when you're sleep training and you might have to do cry it out or something like that, you get so much guilt and you feel so sad that you might hear your baby crying, but you know what? If you can pour the love on when they're awake, give all the cuddles, give all the kisses, give them your undivided attention. Don't be on your phone. Get down on the floor, play ball with them.
Speaker 2 00:35:39 Do with them, turn the TV off and have some time with your child, connect with them. Make sure their love tank is full before you put that to bed. And I promise you, it will be okay. So let's dive in to the nuts and bolts of baby wise and what I started implementing with Kate at that six month Mark, and then what I did with the rest of my children. I did these things, exact same things, but the timing of them was much sooner. So with Kate, I started at six months, like I said, with Landon, I think I started sleep training right off the bat. I mean, I think I did. So come up and I enjoyed him and all the things, but I think around two weeks old, literally I was starting to kind of get in the scheduling, which we'll talk about here in just a minute.
Speaker 2 00:36:29 And then with the Luke, I think because he was my baby and I was being a little bit more lenient on things. I think I waited until about the six week Mark with him to kind of start enforcing some of these things a little bit more, but really it doesn't matter when you start in that time period. Yeah. I feel like the overarching thing is you just have to be ready yourself. You have to be ready to sacrifice. You have to be ready to be insistent without consistency. This will not work. Let me give you this caveat while it is so important that you cater to their skin tool when sleep training, it does become so much more flexible down the road. Okay? So once you have established that they are getting the sleep that they need and that they are following them, the schedule and everything is kind of clicking.
Speaker 2 00:37:20 You'll kind of start to feel it out and you'll know that, okay, we can bend this one by 15 minutes or we can bend. We can start over 30 minutes later or whatever. You'll start to see the warning signals. You'll start to see that tiredness and the cues and you'll know, okay, we got a book at home. We need to get to the bed before we really miss our window. Right. Okay. You guys, there's just so much to talk about here. I literally could talk about sleep for hours on end. So I'm trying to organize my thoughts a little bit and give you enough information about those early days, but there's just so many tangents I can get on. So I apologize. Okay. Let me, let me talk about the basics of what I did. So baby wise, first thing is they want you to set a goal, wake time a morning, wait time.
Speaker 2 00:38:07 And I, I think I decided on 7:00 AM. So we were going to do it like a seven to seven schedule. Anyway, regardless we started our wait time at 7:00 AM every single day. And when I say 7:00 AM, I mean, 7:00 AM. I was setting an alarm and I was in her room, waking her up at 7:00 AM. So let me back up a minute and discuss what her room looked like at that time. And a lot of the things are from the two books, both books, baby wise, and healthy sleep habits. I had blackout windows in her room, so it was pitch black. And when, I mean, pitch black, okay. I actually put black trash bags on the window and they stayed there for the whole first year of her life. And then on top of that, I had white blackout curtains that just stay closed all the time.
Speaker 2 00:39:00 So like literally there was no light coming in that room, okay. With my boys, I ended up just sleep, training them in my closet. I'm very grateful. And both of the homes that I live in, I've had a tiny little walk in closet and both of them where I could throw a pack and play in there literally only a pack and play. And I just slept them in my closet for a while. Actually. I mean, obviously there was air don't, don't be alarmed. There was an AC unit in ventilation and all they were fine, but with her room, I just want to make sure and paint the picture. Literally no light coming in there. Okay. She was very sensitive to light. And I had already known that from before we even started. That was one of the things I tried to fix without reading. I had a box fan, one of those old school, you know, $15 box fans at Walmart.
Speaker 2 00:39:49 I still use them to this day. I would just put it on low. And I like the hum of it for the white noise. We use that. And then I also had her in a crib and she had a blanket. And I think at this Mark, I was still swaddling. I maybe might not have been swaddling her arms at that time, but I know I was probably still doing her body just to kind of give her that comfort. So again, with both my boys, swaddling is a huge helper in the early days. Okay. I am a huge proponent of tight swaddling, so not letting their arms move around. I have read so much about it. You guys, and about the reflexes that they can't control. And I found with all of my children, tightly swaddling, them was a game changer. Let me not overstate that.
Speaker 2 00:40:40 And so with my boys, I started swaddling from day one. Like when they came out, I just knew that they wanted to be in a tight little cocoon, like they had been in for the previous nine months. And so I kept up the swaddling and I think it really does help 100% getting back to the basics of what I was doing. So she had a dark room, we had white noise. She did have a little blanket in her bed, which she still has today. And I think I was swaddling her body. I'm not sure. I liked to keep the room cool enough to where she was comfortable in Arizona. That's very hard to do because it gets so hot here. But I have read that optimal temperature for children's sleeping is somewhere like 68 degrees to 74 degrees. I know all of us here in Arizona.
Speaker 2 00:41:30 You're like what? I can't pay that bill eight degrees. I get it. Trust me. But I had all the fans on. I tried to like keep her room as possibly cool as possible because I think a lot of times we don't pay attention to the temperature and we think, Oh, they're fine. Babies can sleep through anything. But my Kate was just not that way. She could not sleep. She was a hard, hard sleep trainer. So her room was comfortable. Then we start implementing after we did the morning, wake up time of 7:00 AM. We started to implement the eat wake sleep cycle. And that is the core of baby wise. So essentially what, what it teaches you instead of feeding them to sleep you're instead having them eat, wake, have their, like, have their breakfast, then they're gonna have their play time. They're going to have their wake time.
Speaker 2 00:42:22 And then they're going to go to sleep without being fed. Let me say this. If you can get on top of baby wise, very early on, I think this is really easy to do because the children, the baby, they're just so tired. Those first six weeks, you guys know they go to sleep so easy and the wait times are so short because there's so many feedings. It's literally like you're doing this cycle like eight times a day. They're eating their way for like five minutes and then they're sleeping again. Right. But that counts as a cycle in the early two days, I will say with my daughter, I think at some point I ended up giving her a tiny SIPI of milk when I switched to formula. And I did let her go to sleep with a tiny bit of milk, but it was not her meal.
Speaker 2 00:43:10 Okay. So that's the only one. Yeah. I can kind of get around this and call myself a baby wise mom still Paul is she would actually eat like her full feed of breast milk or formula or whatever when she woke up. But I would give her a little bottle of milk just to kind of help sooth her. And I know that's horrible, baby wise, moms everywhere. Like, no don't do that. Don't do it. But I did it and I still I'll do it to some degree with my boys. All of my kids, actually, they still like a tiny sip of milk before they go to bed. Every single night. My daughter has it in a big cup. Sh I mean, I'm talking like literally like an inch of milk in the cup, but they like a sip of milk before they could of had it's weird.
Speaker 2 00:43:54 Maybe I'm screwing them up for life. I don't know. Sorry, but that is the one big role I have probably bent in the baby wise method is I have allowed them even after a year, I would give my boys like a sippy, tiny bit of milk in it again, just to Sue them and give them like a little drink before they go to sleep. And then they also would have they're they're lovey, they all have a blanket. They would all go to bed with their blanket. So we implemented that cycle. We would then start focusing on naps. And again, if you want to do what I did go read the books. It's just so much to say, I don't want to go into like nitty gritty detail about schedules and stuff like that. I followed it to the letter with the exception, pretty much of the milk at, in the bed.
Speaker 2 00:44:42 Okay. But again, we were doing the bulk of our feedings. Like we were supposed to with my boys, I did implement what's called a dream feed. So what they propose is when you're ready to wean baby off. So let's say you do get to the Mark where they're sleeping from like 10:00 PM to 5:00 AM. Right. But you're trying to get rid of that 10:00 PM, feeding that, wake up. What I ended up doing with both my boys and it actually worked really beautifully for me is I would put them to bed seven o'clock, which we still do seven o'clock to this day. And then come nine o'clock nine 15, whenever I was starting to wind down, honestly, I would sneak in their room very quietly and I would give them a dream feed. Okay. You can. And I'm saying dream feed, in case you can't understand one word, go Google it.
Speaker 2 00:45:37 If you've never heard it and you can read ton of detail about it. But essentially what you're trying to do is kind of tank up baby's tummy for the rest of the night. Right? Give the baby some more foods, more milk, give them that nice, yummy, full feeling. So in the hopes are that they will sleep throughout the night without waking up. It ended up working great for both my boys. I did it. And that's how we transitioned from the seven to seven schedule. And what I mean by that is the dream feed had a lot to do with that. And, um, I feel like we only had to do it for about two weeks with both my boys. And then you start to just kind of phase it out and how I would phase it out is doing less and less kind of each day, you know?
Speaker 2 00:46:21 But the goal is with the dream feed to not wake them up. So you want to just see their, if you're bottle feeding, just keep them in bed and give them a bottle. If you're breastfeeding, I did it too. You can take them out. They keep the lights off, keep the white noise on, you know, you try and keep them in a dream state as much as you can, when you're dream feeding, always check their diaper. That's a better time than any. If they have a really full wet diaper, you might want to do something about it then, or definitely. If they have the soil diaper, go ahead and change it then. Or you'll be waking up in the middle of the night. You know that, okay, let me now talk a little bit about pry it out because I think a lot of people associate baby wise with cry it out, which is so funny because to me I've literally only had to do cry it out, maybe six nights in the entire time of my parenting journey.
Speaker 2 00:47:15 So what cry it out is where you do all the things you have, your bedtime routine. The environment is set. The room is dark. The white noises on baby's belly is full. You know that baby is not sick. You know that baby, he has a dry diaper. You know that there's no external factors working against you. Okay? You do not want to start cry it out. When there's a growth spurt happening. When the baby could be sick, when you're traveling, like there's so many things you want all the stars to be in alignment before you start cry it out. Okay? Because the goal with cry it out is that baby will realize she can put herself to sleep and she doesn't need you anymore to do it. Okay. With my daughter night one, we did all the things we gave, all the hugs, the kisses.
Speaker 2 00:48:07 We said a prayer. We read a book, you know, sing the song, put her down and right away she started crying. Eric go, I started crying. Okay. It was so hard with all my children. It's always so hard to do it. So you have to be on the same page with your husband or with your partner. This is what the bullet point that I said earlier. This means get on the same page. Don't let him and do the work that you're trying to do by going in there and getting her, let him be a support to you and say, maybe it will be okay. She's going to be okay. We're right here. I did have a video monitor when I did cry it out. Um, so I could constantly keep an eye on her. And let me give you this caveat. There's a couple of rules that I personally did with cry it out.
Speaker 2 00:48:55 I would watch her literally on the video monitor the entire time. And there's a couple levels of crying and all your moms out there. You know what I'm talking about? There is a, a cry of I'm lonely. I'm scared, you know, a level, one cry, let's call it that level one cry. You don't go in there for level one cry level two cry means I'm starting to get really worked up, right? Like I'm starting to get really worked up. That's where I would start to get pretty concerned by level three, where she's losing it. She's putting her hands through the rails of the crib. You know, like all the things where you feel like she might be choking on her own, you know, tears or any of the things absolutely. You get in there and you like handle, you give her a hug, all the things, make sure we don't get to level three crying.
Speaker 2 00:49:45 But I personally very rarely experienced that. The only time that I ever experienced it was with my son. And he was a toddler when we had to do cry it out again at two and a half years old. And that's a subject for another day as a newborn. I don't feel like you get to that much because if they've had the proper amount of wake time, if they're tired and you've caught it at the right time to put them down, then, then they're going to be fine. I feel like 45 minute max I've I've had her cry. And then we got in a good schedule. I think Kate cried for two nights when we did it. And it was max an hour each night probably. And then from there on out, we were good to, so I would say with cry it out, start with the nighttime, try and get your nights without being dependent on you.
Speaker 2 00:50:35 Okay. So start with nighttime. And then once you have nighttime really good and really clicking along, then move to naps and try and get the naps to become independent. Gosh, you guys, there is just so much to say. I feel like my thoughts have been so all over the place here. And I apologize for that, but, um, really what I would encourage you to do, like I said, is pick a methodology. Like for me, it was baby wise. And then I used a lot of the principles from the healthy sleep habits book, and then just study them so much. There's so many good resources online. My favorite blog that literally saved my life more than once is baby wise, mom.com on that website. Um, her name is Valerie. Literally. She is like my sleep savior. Um, she has schedules like detailed down to the, you know, our schedules for all of her children every month.
Speaker 2 00:51:38 So say you have a 19 month old, you can go onto her website and look at her sleep schedules and kind of see what is expected or what's normal for that age range. I found her website to be hugely helpful. She also has a blog index where you can search for literally like any problem in the book, whether it's nap, problems, discipline problems from anxiety, like anything, you can go find it literally on her website. And I just love her perspective. She is Christian. She has four children and I feel like she's just a very mindful, purposeful mother who has a similar approach that I do. So I would try to sit here and spout off all the details, but more so I'm just going to direct you to her website because on her website, like I said, you can find so many good resources for like minute by minute schedules and blog post after blog posts and comments read the comment sections guys.
Speaker 2 00:52:43 I can, I can remember sitting there just reading all the comments of all the moms who were, they have the same questions that you do. Like we're not in this alone. Trust me. We're all going through the same problem, but she does. Valerie takes the time oftentimes to like answer out an answer, all those questions out. And a lot of times, as frustrating as it is, a lot of it has to do with problem solving and troubleshooting. If you hit a bump along the way in sleep training, a few things, um, assess that it could be a growth spurt or the child could be having a wonder week. If you don't know what that has. It's another book called the wonder weeks, which I absolutely love to. And I swear up and down, my friends make fun of me for it, but I swear that anytime my child was having like a significant sleep digression, I would go look it up and they would be going through weak.
Speaker 2 00:53:37 Could you not? And so what the wonder weeks are essentially are massive growth spurts that children go through and everything just gets screwed up. Okay? They get cranky. Their bodies are changing. Their minds are changing. And after the wonder week resolves, the sleep will go back to normal. So I think it helped me knowing, okay, they're going through a Grossberg they're going through a wonder week. Let's just ride this out. Let's be consistent. We're not going to overreact. We're going to show love. We're going to do all the things we need to do. And honestly, the, after it would resolve things would start to go back to normal. So what I'm saying here is you're going to hit bumps in the road. Of course you are, but if you can educate yourself and listen to the book, read the books, take notes, keep logs, and then go check out Valerie's website again, its baby wise.com baby wise, mom.com, not baby wise, baby wise, mom.com.
Speaker 2 00:54:35 She's just, and she's literally spent her life's work, work and doing this. And she's saved my family seriously. Like, and I'm not getting paid to say this. I don't even think she knows who I am. She has reached out. Or I have reached out to her twice, personally in my parenting journey. And she actually was such an angel that she responded back to me and helped me get through those tough times. And so in no way, is this a sponsored thing? It's not at all. I mean, I think she deserves any and everything that she gets because of everything that she's given to moms in this resource. So go check it out. Baby wise, mom.com. Again, the sleep schedules are hugely helpful. She has a blog post for everything from feeding to swaddling to you name it, it's on the website. Overall. I just want to give you a message of hope.
Speaker 2 00:55:25 And I wanted to answer a few quick questions that I got on Instagram overwhelmingly. I got so many direct messages from you about how my five-year-old stays in his bed after I put him in bed. So a week ago or so, um, I showed you my bedtime routine and Landon my middle. I put him to bed and he stays there and I got so many direct messages going, how do you do that? How do you do that? And you know, guys, honestly, like I don't think it's any specific thing I'm doing now, to be honest, I think a lot of it has to do with all the things that I've talked about this last hour. I just think that now we are reaping the benefits of the hard work that we put in years ago. If that makes sense. It's all of those things of committing to the schedule, staying consistent.
Speaker 2 00:56:15 Don't sabotage it, you know, stay within your timeframe, stick to the schedule, all the things, maintaining that it's a parent house. The child does not run the house. All those little things that we talked about. I think that is what has culminated in the piece that we have at bedtime, to be honest, like Landon knows that this is what's expected. And if he doesn't do that, then it's, I mean, honestly I can't even remember a time he's tested me on bedtime, to be honest with you. And I'll be real. I had a lot of energy. <inaudible> moving. My second child into a big bed are moving him out of his crib. I had a lot of anxiety about that. I waited until he was probably three and a half years old to do that. Because somewhere along the way, I had read that a child, they lie something.
Speaker 2 00:57:06 And I can't, I need to go find this because I've tried to talk about it on the podcast a few times now. And I just cannot remember where I read it, but it was something yeah. Before the age of three, the child Kyle just does not have the mental wherewithal to be out of a crib. They, they need the bag <inaudible> they will get up. They will test you like all the things. If you try to move them before they're three years old out of a crib again, I'm not quoting that correctly. I can't remember where I read it. I'm going to go look that up. I promise. But since that time I told myself, okay, well, we're just going to ride the crib out as long as we possibly you can. So with both my boys, I waited well after they were three, I still have not moved Luke out of his crib.
Speaker 2 00:57:50 He has one. But with Landon, I was really nervous because, because Landon is my most defiant child. He is very, um, he's very driven. He's very strong-willed but he also has the biggest heart and he is literally my face on so many days. Okay. So I don't want to give him a bad rap. I had a lot of nerves moving him out of his crib, but you guys, I'm not kidding. It was so easy. It was so easy. And I think a lot of it is because we knew the schedule. He knew what was expected. He knew the routine, nothing changed. Like the, the routine stayed the same. The timing stayed the same, all the elements of our home and the room and all of it stayed the same. The only thing that was different was he didn't have a crib anymore. He now had this big, cool bun bed and we made a big deal about it.
Speaker 2 00:58:42 And he was so excited, but I also took the time to explain, okay, but this is a big responsibility. You have a lot of freedom now. So you need to stay in your bed unless you need to go potty. And he knew he could always get out of his bed if he needed to go potty because we didn't want him to have accidents. So I think it's just approaching everything with love, but to answer your questions that I got on the DMS, when I started to really think about it, I wish I had a better answer for you, but I there's just nothing specific that I did with him that I didn't do with all of them. I think it was just a result of the consistency, the routine, all the things we've kind of talked about here. And I'm sorry, I don't have a better answer than that.
Speaker 2 00:59:27 The one thing that I will tell you about is when Landon was two years old, we had been traveling a lot that summer. Okay. And prior to the traveling we had, um, just moved into a new home. So he had moved into a new room, moved into a new home. We had adjusted to that, but just as we adjusted to that, we decided to spend most of our summer in California. And when we go on vacations in the early days, I was so strict about sleep training, keeping to the schedule on vacation so much so that I would forgo a lot of fun to make sure we were home by 7:00 PM. So they could be in the bed kid. You not, we would go to Disneyland and we would leave Disneyland at six o'clock. So I could make sure the kids were in bed by seven 30.
Speaker 2 01:00:19 Do you know what I mean? It was that important to me. It really was. And I caught a lot of crap for it early days. But my point is, he was two. At this point, my daughter was four. And so in my head, I think, okay, we're going to be a little bit more flexible this summer. I'm going to let him stay up a little bit later. We're not going to stick to the schedule as much, all the things, right? So by the end of summer, he was, you know, in California, the sun stays up longer. Um, so he wasn't going to bed at the same time. Long story short, by the time we are back in Arizona, resuming normal life, he had developed this habit of waking up at like 2:00 AM, every single night, screaming his head off, literally screaming his head off, crawling out of his crib, coming and getting us just like crying, beating his head on the floor, like something I had never, ever dealt with in my life.
Speaker 2 01:01:16 Okay. It would wake us up. We would have to go get him. We would try and get him some milk walking back to his room. We would get him settled down and he would be okay. But then he would wake up at six, 6:00 AM way before he normally did. And then we would go through this whole cycle of him just being miserable, miserable in the morning. I can remember him literally throwing tantrums on my tile bathroom floor. I could picture it right now, him just screaming his head off and not knowing why, but looking at my husband and saying what is going on? What's he upset about, he just woke up what's going on? And I had just never dealt with it before. Just such an ongoing, almost angry child. He just seemed so miserable all the time. So we got in this unhealthy cycle for weeks.
Speaker 2 01:02:07 Really? We did this for weeks on end and it was just so exhausting. It really did just take a toll on me. It took a toll on my husband, my daughter, the whole house just became an unfun negative place. I hate to say that, but it really did. And it was all resulting from my son. He was having multiple meltdown after meltdown. It was just terrible. You guys, okay. A couple of the few parenting mistakes, major, major parenting mistakes that I've had in my life happened during this timeframe. And it's where I spanked him really, really hard out of frustration one night. And after I did it, I went in my room and I bawled. I cried so hard because I knew I never, ever wanted to do that to my child. And I'm not saying I hit him. Of course I didn't hit him, but I've never even had to spank my children's sense.
Speaker 2 01:03:02 And I spanked him that evening and it just hurt my heart so much. But like in the moment when I spanked him, I was just so frustrated. And I was so beaten down. I literally did not know of anything else to do. And so it was at that moment where I was like, okay, this is enough. Like I have to, I have to fix this. Here we go. Again. I have, I have to sleep, train again when my daughter's four and now he's two and a half or two. I've got to figure this out all over again. Right? At that point, we determined that he was overly tired. This was a concept that I dealt with when Kate was, I don't know, maybe around a year old. Um, but the concept of over tiredness, again, we could do a whole nother episode on that. But if you're curious about it, go read about it.
Speaker 2 01:03:51 Essentially, what it means is when a child has repeatedly night after night, day after day, gotten less sleep than what they need. They will eventually become overtired to a point where they cannot sleep well. Okay. And so with both my children, I face this just at different times, Kate's was much more easier to fix because she was still young. I was able to literally just kind of hold her and nurture her and have her sleep in my arms to kind of restore her sleep. But with Landon, I knew it was going to be so much harder because he was older. He was a toddler. But I knew, I knew in my gut, that was the problem. I knew that this was not his character. He was acting this way because he was overly tired. I just knew it. So at that point I decided, okay, we're going to cry it out again at two years, hold we're about to do cry it out.
Speaker 2 01:04:47 But before we could do that, I knew I had to fix the problem of him crawling out of his crib every night. Okay. So at that point, that's when I start doing my homework on the crib tent, I've shared it on Instagram. I've talked to a lot of you about it. Crib tent is it's a mesh dome tent thing that actually he loved. He never cried once about it. I've used it with both my boys and they've both loved it. It's mesh we, but up they're safe. They can't crawl out and kill themselves in the middle of the night. That's the goal. But on the other hand, it also keeps him confined, right? So I got the crib tent and then we set out to start cry it out again. And at that point with a two year old, you can talk to them and you say it in a very loving way that bed, this is sleeping time, blah, blah, blah, whatever you guys know what to say.
Speaker 2 01:05:38 You're, you're all moms. You you've done this before and you know your child, but long story short, I had to cry it out with him at two. And it was a much harder process at two years old than it was at two months old, way harder. And I will say that the older the child is when you're starting to sleep, train the harder it will be. So that's why I like to encourage people to do it in the earlier stage. <inaudible> but you can fix bad sleep problems. It's just really hard. It's really hard. But we did, we cried it out for probably two or three nights. He got the message. He got redirected and we reestablished that the parents are in control here. You're not in control, landed, you know, all the things. And so we just had, we had to have a reset and that reset did occur.
Speaker 2 01:06:28 It did work, but it was hard. It was very hard. And it was very emotionally draining on me more than anybody. And I think once he was able to read for his sleep pattern and kind of build up his reservoir for lack of better words, you guys, I'm not kidding. He is my best sleeper. Now he to this day and I look back on this and I laugh. He needs so much sleep. He needs it like he's five years old. So he will go to bed at 7:00 PM. He's my early Waker. So he wakes about six and kind of does his own thing. But then literally like three days out of the week, he still takes a nap he'll nap from like noon to two or noon to one 30 or something. And then he'll go to bed at seven. O'clock still. So like what five-year-old does that?
Speaker 2 01:07:16 I don't know my daughter, didn't my youngest son. I know he won't, he like quit napping earlier than any of them, but my Landon, he needs a lot of sleep. And when he gets sleep deprived, he gets really naughty, like really naughty. So I think it's just knowing your child and kind of knowing what their boundaries can be when it comes to sleep and what they require when it comes to sleep. And then just being willing to kind of stay on top of that and make the sacrifices that are involved with sleep training. It's not fun. Let's be honest. It's really not, but you know what? Your child will thank you for it. And your partner will thank you for it. And I promise you, it will be worth it. It, your home will be more peaceful place and it will be a place of predictability and structure and order instead of chaos. So again, I just want to encourage all of you go read the books. There's so much detail and there's so much guidance out there now that I could not pretend
Speaker 0 01:08:16 To like go through on a podcast episode. So refer to the baby wise, mom.com blog. She is great. And then the three books that I referenced again are on becoming baby wise, healthy sleep habits, happy child. And the wonder weeks, those are the three that I kind of used as my Bible, but then also there was a whole lot of intuitions sprinkled on top. And I want to encourage you to do that as well. You guys, I'm sorry if my thoughts were all over the board, it's kind of weird doing this by myself because usually I have Lauren here and we just spout off and we feed off each other so well, so it's so hard to sit here and have a conversation with myself because I don't even know if I'm making sense. Okay. So I hope that this was useful to somebody. And if you enjoyed the show today or found it at all helpful, we would really appreciate it. If you jumped over and subscribe to the show and leave us a rating and review, if you want to like really, really help us out, please share us with your friends and family or on social media. It really is the only way that we're able to grow the party is through our listeners and through you. And so really appreciate any time that they do it. Fine morning on Instagram throughout the day from his podcast back every Monday, fresh new content.
